Potentially controversial rant

"Hooker" (Hooker) 01/15/2014 at 18:00 • Filed to: None

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I understand that there are some conditions that contribute to a person being severely obese. In those medical situation, the person affected cannot lose weight even if they wanted to. What I don't understand is when a morbidly obese person bitches and complains that they are forced to purchase two seats on a plane due to their size (which is in their full control). If you are too big for one seat, you have to buy two. Why? Because if you weren't so damn big the air line would have been able to sell that seat to someone else. Why should the air lines have to lose money carting your fat ass around? And yes, I know air lines charge obscene prices and fees and it's ridiculous.

I have a screen cap of a conversation of two people discussing this injustice on facebook, however, don't feel comfortable posting it. Things on the internet have a way of getting out of hand and I don't want to upset anyone unnecessarily. So instead, have a picture of a Dreamliner.

ddavidn > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:02

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Mmmmmm.... Dreamliner.

For Sweden > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:04

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Safety no real, only feels.

HammerheadFistpunch > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:05

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I think my major complaint in general is people who bitch and moan...I mean seriously, there are two sides to every story. We have the responsibility to fight injustice, but we aren't entitled to stuff just because we can summon an attitude.

TurboSloth > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:07

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They complain because they believe in equality. Equality is a lie, and will never exist. When you realize that, the world just makes more sense.

Hooker > HammerheadFistpunch 01/15/2014 at 18:07

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Agreed, however, I don't feel that being charged for taking up two seats worth of space is an injustice if it's in your control to not be that big. These people make a choice to be big, the air lines make the choice to charge them more.

Hooker > TurboSloth 01/15/2014 at 18:07

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This is true. Equality is a lie.

Hooker > ddavidn 01/15/2014 at 18:08

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It is sexy, isn't it?

CAR_IS_MI > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:08

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I get pissed when I get stuck between two large people. I am not a small guy; at 6' 22olbs and a 44" chest the seat barely fits me (but I don't have fat flaps drooling on the arm rest).

I somehow seem to always get stuck between an obese couple who thought it would be a good idea for them to get seats A and C, in hopes no one would get B and they could have the canter seat for their love handles to hold hands. I always get B. Don't ask how or why, I don't have the answer. But it is always a horrific flight, and I always get off smelling of cheese puffs and sweaty gym socks.

And while we are on the topic, don't get mad at people when you weigh 300 lbs yet your grocery cars consists of M&Ms, Snickers, 6 gallons of ice cream, a cake, all the new Doritos, and 17 cases of cola to wash it all down with. Clearly you are in this by your own accord.

Textured Soy Protein > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:08

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Not that they would've fit any better before, but modern airline seats are definitely smaller than they used to be. Flying sucks in general, and for me in particular.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Myself, I'm 5'11" and 220 lbs with a 48" chest. I'm wide. I even lift . I hate flying coach unless I'm with my gf so I can invade her shoulder space. Otherwise I need to get an aisle seat and lean out into the aisle, until the drink cart comes by. Usually I at least have a flight attendant walk backward into me instead of bashing me with the cart.

Also depending on the airline, with my feet in front of me like I'm sitting normally, my knees will be pressed up on the back of the seat in front of me. I'm not even 6 feet tall!

Hooker > Textured Soy Protein 01/15/2014 at 18:10

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Agreed, air lines have been packing people in planes more like sardines in a can. It's not getting any better, that's for sure. I am 5-8 and 200 pounds (trying to get back to my happy place at 170) and the seats are barely comfortably sized for me.

HammerheadFistpunch > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:11

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I'm not saying it is, I'm just leaving room in the "bitch and moan" clause for true injustice. Truth is though, its easier to rickshaw a person cross country than it is for anyone other than the most extremely motivated individuals with external coaching to loose a lot of weight. There isn't a lot of room to complain though, just like people without right arms can't complain to a car dealer that they don't have any stick shifts that will work for him on the lot. Sometimes its just your lot in life, suck it up.

Hooker > CAR_IS_MI 01/15/2014 at 18:12

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You hit the nail on the head. I too, seem to always get the middle seat and I never get the arm rests, nor do I get to breath for the flight. I once came off a flight from Heathrow to Athens smelling like a large English man. It wasn't pleasant.

desertdog5051 > Textured Soy Protein 01/15/2014 at 18:14

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Years ago, when seats were bigger and not knee cramped, I loved to sit in a window seat. Now, I can only tolerate an aisle seat so I can move around and get out of that claustrophobic seat. I'm 6'1" and I feel like I'm in a coffin when I fly.

CAR_IS_MI > Textured Soy Protein 01/15/2014 at 18:16

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We should form a club. "People with chests larger than 36" who don't like being stuffed into tiny airplane seats against tiny airplane seats".

Or "PWCLT36WDLBSITASATAS" for short.

Grindintosecond > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:19

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here we go.Dude I like you and your posting but I have to react to this...I do...

" And yes, I know air lines charge obscene prices and fees and it's ridiculous."

I'm sorry but air travel has never been cheaper. Those tickets that are so expensive are the cheapest they have ever been in the history of air travel. Those fees they are starting to charge for other features? Well now that your tickets are the cheapest they have ever been in the history of air travel they need to do something to make a profit. Why? the price of gas has gone from what was 20 cents a gallon in bulk fuel purchases into the tanks to $3 a gallon in bulk purchases. A 1000% rise. the buying power of the dollar? 200%....see the change? (if you go to the local airport and buy a gallon of jet-a it costs you $6/gallon) The cheapest ticket will fill the plane with people and they have already talked the other prices to operate down to poverty levels for some employees yet nobody wants to pay a decent price for a ticket. That $150million dollar jet you sit in...now costs YOU less to fly somewhere instead of drive...the total opposite of what it used to be....oppo...huh...

anyway, fat people flying. I agree they should pay for the space they occupy. If they need two seats to fit themselves somewhere...then either they pay for it or show medical proof that they have zero control over their size and get reimbursed via disability insurance.

Oppo on.

ddavidn > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:19

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Yup. Gotta be a big boeing fan, being from Seattle and all.

Hooker > CAR_IS_MI 01/15/2014 at 18:19

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The acronym made my day!

Textured Soy Protein > CAR_IS_MI 01/15/2014 at 18:21

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This is one of the reasons I like flying Southwest.

I set a calendar reminder on my phone exactly 24 hours before my flight so I can check in as early as possible and get to a good spot in the boarding line. When I board, I go about halfway back in the plane to a completely empty row, park myself in an aisle seat, and look all ornery at anyone who glances in my direction.

Unless the plane is totally full, I usually luck out and just have someone in the window seat with an empty middle seat.

Hooker > ddavidn 01/15/2014 at 18:21

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They have a plant in SC which isn't all that far from me. I would kill to work there. I would clean their toilets.

CAR_IS_MI > Textured Soy Protein 01/15/2014 at 18:25

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I have successfully done this on two SW flights, although, living in Vegas, there is usually never an empty flight. Also, I have checked in with SW within seconds of the 24 hour mark and still gotten a high B or a C boarding pass, I fail to see the point because I could check in at the airport and still get a B.

Hooker > Grindintosecond 01/15/2014 at 18:25

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Thanks for the perspective on airline costs. Been a while since I have actually flown and the last time I did I had to pay for the first bag checked, and my carry-on. But you're right, the ticket was dirt cheap from here to CA so I guess it all evens out in the wash.

Textured Soy Protein > CAR_IS_MI 01/15/2014 at 18:29

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Yeah depending on how many people spend the extra $10 for early bird auto check-in you might still end up with a low boarding group.

Which is kinda why that $10 is pretty damn worth it.

ddavidn > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:34

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Literally, I think their janitors have better benefits than I've ever had. And more vacation time.

Reference: I know a Boeing janitor. He's quite happy.

Grindintosecond > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:43

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I'm the guy up front in row-zero.

Yeah its a big trend now. It used to be customer service that got people on the plane. but when they deregulated the pricing....it went to the cheapest ticket that filled a plane and customer service went out the window. Now, its still cheapest...so if you can travel with nothing at all....then you'll find awesome cheap prices...but you gotta have a bag so i guess its ok that way to pay as you need space. Thats "De-bundling" of the prices. Spirit airlines, Allegiant, etc are the cheapo-s doing that right now. But its going a bit silly. Frontier airlines charges you $2 for a can of soda...$6 i think for a beer...I laugh at that because it's a 2 hour flight....in 11am....that guy can go without a beer for 2 hours. I heard a pilot not long ago for Southwest say that they don't know how much longer they can go without charging for bags...I think the whole industry is going with the debundled "you want fries with that" approach instead of the value meal were used to.

ttyymmnn > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:50

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Is that battery smoke I see, or is it the steam coming out of your ears? Seriously, though, I agree completely. People who are too big for one seat are also a safety hazard in an evacuation.

Casper > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:54

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This is why they simply need to charge for weight. Start at say 150 lbs and go up in tiers per cost as well as space. If you are over x weight, you buy two seats. It's the only way to be logical about something like this. You are paying to ship yourself from A to B. If you were a box it wouldn't be an issue at all.

As for costs, if you are against the prices, blame the government. They are a huge part of it with the new fees and taxes levied against airlines.... and the manipulation of fuel prices/exchange rates.

jlmounce > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:55

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Wrap your head around this. Many of the ailments that can cause or can contribute to obesity are also caused by...obesity. Diabetes, thyroid issues etc.

Many people don't agree with me on this and I may be flamed here for giving my opinion. However, regardless of your physical condition and any ailments, obesity is largely a choice. Weight is primarily a factor of caloric intake vs. caloric use. Certain ailments may impair the bodies ability to properly process these calories, but that doesn't change the initial formula.

Lets say x is caloric intake in 1000 increments. Lets also say that n is caloric use in 1000 increments.

If x > n, you gain wait. If x < n you lose weight. That is and always will be the nuts and bolts of it. There are factors that change the amount of calories you use, or in what manor they are used or stored, but at the end of the day, if you're in-taking more calories than you are using, you will gain or maintain weight.

In my final brain bender here, think about the number of calories that would need to be consumed daily just to maintain somebody 300 lbs or greater, let alone contribute to further weight gain.

Korea Miéville > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 18:58

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I dunno, I feel like this is a case of scapegoating the consumer for a situation the corporation created, or at least worsened. Arguably, the airlines have more ability to remedy the problem with the seats than the people who can't fit into them.

Hooker > ddavidn 01/15/2014 at 19:05

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See what I mean? I'm a CAD drafter, maybe that will get me somewhere? Meh, probably not. One can dream!

Hooker > Grindintosecond 01/15/2014 at 19:07

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It is very a la carte for sure. But you have complete control over how much you pay for your flight as a result. You can get all the trimmings but it will cost you. Yeah, if that guy can't go without a beer for 2 hours he may have a problem.

Hooker > Casper 01/15/2014 at 19:09

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I agree to a point. A 200lb woman and a 200lb man are very different in size due to muscle mass and such. I don't think it can be that cut and dry otherwise there would be a lot of two seat passengers that don't need it.

Hooker > jlmounce 01/15/2014 at 19:09

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You won't get flamed by me. That's sound logic there.

Hooker > ttyymmnn 01/15/2014 at 19:10

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Indeed. Couldn't agree more.

Hooker > Korea Miéville 01/15/2014 at 19:12

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I disagree (that shouldn't be a surprise). Most people fit just fine in the seats that are there. Are they uncomfortable? Yep. Could they be bigger? Yep. Is it the air lines problem that you are 300 plus pounds and need a bigger or two seats? No. The general consumer has control over their weight. Don't want extra costs? Lose the weight.

Casper > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 20:01

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That's why I also said "as well as space". Basically if are billed per lb regardless of size (as it should be) but if you are over sized space wise, you may need to buy a second seat do to volume (just like over sized packages).

Bandit > ttyymmnn 01/15/2014 at 20:06

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Heh, I just imagined a very large person getting stuck in the door way of an airplane in event of an emergency exit causing everyone else to perish. I found the image rather funny; there is no way I am not going to hell. But seriously though, obese people should be forced to buy two seats.

Hooker > Bandit 01/15/2014 at 20:32

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I now have the same mental picture and I have reserved a spot in Hell right next to yours. I'll bring the bourbon.

Bandit > Hooker 01/15/2014 at 20:33

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I got the marshmallows! Bourbon and smores - the breakfast of champions.

ihm96 > Casper 01/15/2014 at 22:31

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I think the charging for extra space makes sense, but I don't agree with based on weight because that seems like a negligible difference in shipping cost, although I could be wrong. A thought about size I've had is that to buy bigger things you often have to pay more, but with clothing it is all the same price whether its a small or xll which is a lot more fabric usage. It seems kinda unfair to someone like me who always gets small (although I don't truly care about it that much). I only thought of it because I realized how much cheaper kids clothing is compared to adult size clothing.

Casper > ihm96 01/15/2014 at 22:38

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Weight plays a bigger role on actual cost to fly due to fuel cost. Ground freight weight isn't as important as size (which is what you see in parcels). Currently light passengers get gouged to help pay for heavier ones, just like those with less luggage are gouged for those with more. That's the reason they charge for stowing luggage and require it for anything over 55lbs at most airlines.

Korea Miéville > Hooker 01/16/2014 at 00:02

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Yeah, I do see where you're coming from, and I actually don't disagree with your rant insofar as it's unreasonable to gripe because an airline won't give you an extra seat at their expense. You should know going in what the expectation is going to be. (I'm assuming the airline does inform passengers of this policy in advance — if they don't, then it's completely understandable that they would be upset. Who wouldn't be, if you were told at the airport that, oh, by the way, we doubled the price of your ticket.)

Where I'm coming from is basically just that, between consumers and megacorporations, I generally side with the consumer. A company that provides a service for pay should provide that service to the paying customer's satisfaction, period. I just don't have much sympathy to spare for corporations. Delta Airlines doesn't really need me to take a courageous stand in their defense against fat people.

The thing is, whatever the reason is why someone is obese is none of my business. It's not for me to judge any stranger on their physical appearance or disability, because (a) again, it's none of my business, and (b) I know nothing about them or their situation, so my judgment is worthless to begin with. Whatever reaction or opinion I might have — and believe me, I have some harsh ones — has to be tempered by these realities.

I don't disagree with your point about most people being fine in the existing seats, but that argument makes me uncomfortable because that resentment/judgment of being asked to make accommodations for non-average/normal people is the same basic attitude that people direct towards the disabled when they're asked to implement things like wheelchair ramps.

But should extremely obese people be considered disabled? Well, functionally, they are. regardless of how they got that way. Your argument, I'm guessing, would be that many of them are that way by choice, unlike, say, a paraplegic. That's undoubtedly so. But many also are not. Do we disregard them because of our disgust of the fat-by-choice? Should we do away with wheelchair ramps because they're used by skateboarders who break their legs voluntarily attempting some stupid jump? Do we restrict amenities for disabled people to those who we deem morally fit to use them?

ddavidn > Hooker 01/16/2014 at 01:04

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Ideally, that would get you somewhere above Boeing janitor...

Hooker > Korea Miéville 01/16/2014 at 08:34

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You make some excellent points. I feel like you're right about judging people. We do not know their individual situation, however, it is so easy for us to make judgements. In this particular situation, the woman I know got there by herself and is proud of her size. She even has a fat-bias blog about it. Anyway, thanks for the perspective.